116: On Nurture Sequences, Rapport & Pride and Prejudice (feat. Allea Grummert)

when I think of heartbeat, notice how everything I'm saying is like, you still need

to talk to your audience. Right? That's what that was the first thing I shared.

Ask them. Send a survey, add a survey to your welcome

sequence, or when people first opt in so that you can learn more about them.

Like, My and I guess my heartbeat, my heart is to serve

the people whose attention I have.

Welcome to Too Legitimate to Quit instantly actionable

small business strategies with a pop culture spin.

I am your host, Annie P. Ruggles, and I am so

excited to welcome you back to our fabulous

summer school season. And, boy, Do we have a jam

packed episode for you today? Allea

Grummert is our guest, and Allea Grummert is a email

marketing strategist and conversion copywriter who helps

bloggers and content creators make a killer first impression

through automated welcome and nurture sequences. She helps

her clients build intentional email strategies that engage

readers build brand loyalty, and optimize conversations

for sales and site traffic. After starting a personal

finance blog in 2016, and learning the ropes of online

marketing, Ali has paired her hands on experience with

her advertising degree. She works with clients, including food

bloggers, money experts, service providers, product and course

creators, and membership communities to create tailored

strategic email sequences that promote products and

content that readers both love and engage with.

Ali holds the coveted spot as the email marketing

expert for the Food blogger pro membership community

is a recommended expert through Nerd Press and has been

featured on industry podcasts, including the Copywriter Club

podcast, system saved me, and the Food blogger

pro podcast. Ellie. We

met in Orlando on a porch. We

became friends immediately and started

swapping. We are from the middle of nowhere stories, and I

knew that I loved you. And then you turned around and said, hey.

Can we do an episode about the Keira Knightly pride and prejudice? And I was

like, would you like to get married? I'm already married, but we could change

it. But before we get into P And P and my Austin

obsession, which you share? I gotta ask you a more important

question, which is What do small business owners need to focus on this

week? I would say focus on getting to know your

audience. Like, ask them a question. Yeah.

Talk to the people. Talk to the people.

Whether that's, like, sending out a question in your email marketing to

have people reply back to or, yeah, or

sending out a survey. But it it can be as simple as, like, hey,

audience. I'm curious. Answer this question. Reply

back. You know, I love that. And then, also, I think

one thing where I what comes up for me immediately, like, if I

turn off strategist brain that's like, yes. Do this. Do this

immediately. If I put on, like, stressed out business

owner side of my brain, I'm like, but what if nobody

risk bonds to me. So I think one

of the I think I worry about questions because I worry about

receiving crickets. And I think I also worry about not

asking the right questions. So if

I'm asking questions and getting crickets, What does

that mean? Or how do I ask better questions?

Well, first of all, nobody on your list will know if nobody else answered.

That's valid. It's just you. That's valid.

Like, I have a question or 2 in my welcome sequence. think it's actually

my very first welcome email. And, like, I'm not getting replies from

every new subscriber, but I get replies every now and then, or there's weeks where

I'll get 4 replies and weeks where I'll get none. And so it

really just kinda depends on that person's, like, willingness to engage at that

moment too. But as far asking good questions. I think ask

something that's not maybe a yes or no question, but still is

still is easy to reply back to you. Like, I have clients, like, who maybe

are Italian food bloggers. So we'll just ask, like, what's your connection to

Italy? Oh, man. If people like our from Italy

or their grandparents are or they visited there once. Like, they wanna talk they

wanna talk about it. I love that. Open the door for story.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as an Italian American, by

god. Believe me. I understand. Where it's like, you know,

it's like nothing. I'm not knocking my people.

Okay? Ancestors don't roll in your graves, and nobody at me. But,

like, you could tell how proud

people's connection to Italy is every

Columbus day of all trashy things. And I'm like, y'all.

Can we have Sofia Lorene? Can we have another day? Like, can we

do literally freaking same Patrick was actually Italian. Can

we co op, Saint Patrick's Day. Like -- Oh my god. -- come on. But,

you know, because it but people are so

proud and excited to talk about the things that light them

up, whether it's their multigenerational Italian

heritage, their grandma's, you know, you

will never ever know over my call dead hands pasta sauce recipe

or, you know, just the they wanna show you the

trip. They wanna show you, you know, the places that they ate in

Sicily. And and I think that's because you're saying, hey.

by asking you this question, what I'm really showing you is genuine interest and

giving you access. Yeah. And, like, that your story is

welcome here? or, like, you are in a good spot.

Okay. As a content creator, right, so much of what we do is, like, we're

pushing information. Like, here's something about my life, or here's my new

recipe that I created. But to say, like,

your you are the other part of this scenario. Yes.

It's not a vacuum. You're not just, like, sending out information to robots. Like,

they are actual people behind actual email addresses.

Your story is welcome here. It's just can we put that on the

billboard -- Yeah. -- or a tote bag or something? I mean, that's just

so good because, you know, you

work predominantly with bloggers and people that

have found a home on the Internet saying

their peace, sharing the things they love, and using their

voice. Right? Mhmm. And And yet,

that's a self created mechanism

in that, like, that's visibility that is born of you. And

when you put yourself out there so much,

having somebody ask you a great question you can respond to

feels like coming home. You're like, oh, somebody

else cares about what I'm saying. Like, because we

know there are some blog posts you put out that again 127,000

comments overnight. And some stuff that you put out that you think is freaking

incredible that maybe you get one random comment 4 years

later, and you're like, Finally. Somebody

commented on the damn lemon bar post, like, finally.

How do we dance this dance of of putting out

content and adding our voice to the global mix of voices,

but making sure that people understand that through our

own content, their story is welcome here.

Yeah. I think I mean, part of it is asking Part of it is telling

your own story and being vulnerable with that instead of just being like, I'm a

purely a content creator. It's like, no. You're a person behind the content. Yes.

So one of the things You know? I always ask our clients like,

yeah, what what triggered you what happened in your life

that you started this blog? Yep. Or -- Mhmm. -- because then it was like,

oh, because you were a mom with young kids and didn't have time to make,

you know, hour long meals. Mhmm. If you even just say that, it's

giving the permission of the people reading that to be like, oh my gosh. That's

where I'm at. Me too. And then they're like, I'm in I'm in the right

place. Right? The end of it is huge, and there are 100 of

1000 of food blogs. Right? And so to be like, oh, this

person gets it, that's the that's the angle that this creator's coming

from. I'm gonna stick around because I feel like I fit

in here, and they're gonna meet my needs and help solve my problems.

Yeah. And that's why I'm always, like, telling my clients or, you know, I'm I

have a roundtable every month and just encouraging people, like, to find

who you are writing for. Because even just by, like, saying

it, they're gonna be like, oh, yeah. This is my spot -- Yeah. -- for

the stick around versus just keeping things super general. Like, I

provide recipes. It's like, yeah, but what problem are you solving? Let's talk about

roundtables. Yeah. In that okay. We hear a lot

about mastermind groups. we hear a lot about networking, but

there's something really magical about a well executed

roundtable. So how do you find that? And what makes it

so exciting as a concept? My business name is Duette, which, like,

has a couple different meanings. But one of them is, get the thing done. Like

-- Yeah. -- do it. Do it. Do it. Sounds like do it. Do it.

Do it. And I felt like I was passively sharing a ton of content through

my email list Right? You're like, I'm creating this content. I'm on a podcast. Whatever.

I'm, like, pushing it out. But I was like, I know there are a ton

of DIY wires on my list who, like, are hung up on, like, 1

or 2 questions that are keeping them from getting their message out. Right?

So, like, the master or the the round table for me was, like, How do

I answer those questions so that you don't have an excuse anymore? They're

like, can I use emojis in the subject line? I was like, if that's what's

keeping you from sending the day in emails, Let me answer that,

and then we keep moving, and you just go share your wonderful content with the

world. So mine is set up. So,

like, we have it the 3rd Thursday at 3 PM because I like

alliteration. So but it's called email

marketing answers with Ali. It's like a topic that we cover

every month, and then there's kind of an open ended q and a. So,

yeah, the promise is we're gonna get your questions answered. So part

of its education part of its, like, do the dang thing because

I've answered the question for you. I always love, like,

You and I were talking the pre chat. Like, we're gonna talk about email. We're

gonna talk about this. We're gonna talk about that. And there's always, like, the

hidden topic that comes through. And the hidden

topic today is what questions are you asking and what

questions are you answering? right? Because how are we

using questions to build rapport? How are we using questions to

clarify? How are we using questions to build community?

Right? And and, you know, you and I met

tangentially through or through. Danielle Wyle, friend of the show,

and you were there when Danielle was walking around podcast asking everybody

their favorite ice cream. Oh, yeah. And just

like your point, everybody

had an opinion, lactose intolerant people,

that only eat ice cream when they hate themselves that day had

strong opinions. Like, you know, people that are like, I don't

really like sweets, but my favorite. I feel like everybody

had an opinion, and I think, you know, you in

the foodie space That's such a literal example. But

what's the question equivalent listeners that will

get your people riled up, and it might be about

something that has nothing to do with your work. Danielle, like

Ali, is a copy strategist and a writer like

she doesn't and she's not in the food space. She's in, like, the personal development

master 90 space. Like, what's your favorite ice cream? People get talking. And

then What she does is she says, okay. How was your business like that ice

cream? Oh, and now we've drawn the connection. Right?

So You and I and I were talking in the pre chat

about the fact that you just had this amazing brand shoot, and you shared

with me that you on this went on this quest for this incredible lemon

bar. Right? And it had to be a camera ready lemon bar,

and it's like, Alright. Cool. Why a lemon bar?

And how is your business like that lemon bar? Like, that that that

right there. Right? You know, I just wanna tell you now. I'm like, let me

tell you because it's bright, and it's tangy. And have you ever had a bad

lemon bar? No. And how it's like my business is

refreshing -- Yeah. -- delightful, and it's a treat. I don't eat lemon bars

every day, only when I when I wanna But I never have had a

bad lemon bar. Right? I mean and so we could be like, Ally, the

lemon bar of blogging. Like, what what does it even make Who

knows? Now it's a Tyson League egg, but now we're having a conversation. Right?

And -- Yeah. -- and and food is

so memory driven and emotional and

sensory. But if you're not in the food space listener, I don't want

you to worry because you can still invoke and involve the

senses, and you can still use food as a tool. You

can. You can also, I mean, one of my initial questions in

the -- in my welcome sequence actually, like, what's your anxiety around this

blank? You know? What, yeah, what is your number one frustration with

your email marketing right now? Or, like, how is it not meeting your own expectations?

So, you know, you can invoke, like, the really positive and give people to engage

that way. You can also ask, like, what's your problem? Sorry. That's not a really

a problem. No. Not a problem. Well, why -- Yeah. -- why see your pop

up? Like but also, like we said before, your story is welcome here.

That also, someone implies your confusion is welcome here.

Yeah. And then when they reply, I just like, I reply back

empathetically. Like, I get it. You know, marketing is complex.

Here's a video training I already did on it. Like, these are people who are

brand new to my list instead of waiting for them to get that nurture email

in 3 months. Yeah. They're still gonna get it, but I how can I

help you know, shorten that learning curve. Well, why would you withhold something

that you're ready to give? Right. You just have to be willing to do the

work. You have to be willing to go grab that for someone. in remembering that

these people are individuals and not robots. Yeah. I

just put that -- They understand that you're emailing lots of people, but they

wanna feel like you're emailing just them. So when you are emailing just them,

put some effort in. Yeah. And thank them. Like, thanks for replying.

Thanks for being vulnerable. You know, maybe not in those terms. But

yes. Oh, I mean, it you could thank them for

being vulnerable in those terms. Yeah. You could. And if you don't

wanna thank them, you could at least applaud them, be like, hey. Gotta hand it

to you. This was a vulnerable email, and I acknowledge that. Yeah. So I had

a client this Italian blogger that I mentioned.

When we had her welcome sequence ready to go, she, like, teed it

up to her existing list and was like, guys, I have this new thing. I'm

gonna share it with you. You could expect it starting next week. Well, after the

first couple emails came in, she said she got hundreds of replies.

100. And, like, these are not these are not the vanity metrics that you see

on, like, Instagram, followers, or comments on a post or something. It was

like all of these people are, like, I love you. I love your stuff. I

love your story. Here's my story. And, like, that's a connection.

Right? If you're ever going to sell something and she does, she has ebooks. and

she's selling, quote unquote, like, her content and getting traffic back to her site.

But, like, once people feel like an emotional connection to you, Whether

it's like pride or relief or something like that, they're more

likely to stay engaged with you. Well yeah. Because

it's not a flat amorphous

thing. You know? We see an actor

in a that we don't know in a movie that we

really love and they nail that performance, suddenly we love that person. Like, we have

emotional attachment that wasn't there before. And then you go watch every

you video they've ever been in. Exactly. Oh, yeah.

This happens with food too where you're like, I have never eaten

this weird ass thing. And then you eat it, and you're like, have I mentioned

that my favorite food is this weird ass thing that no one else has

had. Like, because because once we've experienced it, we've experienced

it, right, which part of the reason why when I'm working on funnels

with people, I try to get them as experiential as possible, get them the quick

win. Bring in the emotional stuff, bring in the senses. Like,

when you download from direct from me, when you download the

coach you would not sell, the first thing you got from me after

that is you get a playlist of, like, weird noir music so that you can

listen while you read. Right? And Because here's

the it's it's part of it is invoking the census, but the other thing is

I know as a lead magnet and as a community builder and as

a marketing piece, for me. If they download the book

but don't read it -- They're not gonna get the full

effect. They don't get any effect. Like, they get the effect of the fact that

my cover is cute, which doesn't make me any money. Right? And so

one of the objections that I have to handle as someone who puts out long

form content is I don't have time to read

this. I'm a business owner, which is why my book is very short, which is

why you can do the whole thing in 2 hours or less, which is why

I put on a 90 minute playlist to say this 90 minute playlist

should cover you from soup to nuts. Right? Like, this 90 minute, but,

also, people are writing me notes back being like, My favorite track on the

playlist is this 1. What's yours? And I'm like, you're asking me questions.

Yay. Engagement. That's engagement.

Exactly. That's engagement. Well, I've done that with, like, a welcome

sequence for our clients. We have, like, a whole beginner cook

sequence. And part of it, like, their brand is, like, we want you

to be a confident home cook. So in there, like, we had emails of, like,

how to cut up garlic and how to cut up a sweet potato without cutting

your finger off. Right? Like, these are things you need to know. But towards the

end, it was like, please have fun. Here's a playlist. pour something

like sparkling. You know? And, like -- Yep. -- enjoy enjoy the

opportunity to, like, create something. So that reminds me of, yeah, what does it look

like to give people that full breadth of experience. Did

you know that after you chop garlic, if you

rub your fingers on stainless steel like your

sink, it makes the garlic smell go away? I did not know that. Do you

wanna know something else? I actually have no sense of smell at all.

Fun fact. Fun sand fact. Interesting. My friend, Ken,

also has no sense of smell at all, and yet is routinely

the best smelling person I know. Like, notoriously

amazing smelling? because his wife, like, keeps that shit,

like, fabulous. I was just saying, other than -- Every time I get in

there, I'm just like, I gotta give you the double stiff for both of us.

Like, I gotta appreciate how good you smell because you can't. Like,

damn. Oh, man. What happened to your sense of smell? Where did it

go? I've never had one. Never. Never. So but I can still

taste like lemon bars. Don't you worry. I still taste that. -- move somewhere

disgusting that other people cannot tread. Well, for your friend who's,

like, overcompensating and smells super great, I'm like, I might just be a walking

trash bag right now. I don't really know. I don't really know. And

so when I started dating my boyfriend, he, like it was that weird line of,

like, do I tell her she smells, or do I just, like, suck it up?

And then we go out in public, and she smells around other people because I

have the guts to tell her. Oh, it was a whole thing. He's like, I

feel like this is a lose lose. And so we had to figure out a

way for him to kindly say, Hey, girlfriend. You might wanna

go put some put some more deodorant on. It's like everybody poops, but it's

like everybody smells, but not everybody can smell. Ugh. Not

everyone knows they smell. And that that's me. Oh,

man. The stories I have from college, I used to wear a shirt six times

before I wash it. I had no concept of, like, one is probably

enough. Yeah. Like -- See, with that right there.

The dirty t shirt that you cannot smell and continue

to wear is in and of itself a

metaphor for entrepreneurship. Like,

that dirty t shirt could be our pop culture topic today. It's not.

But, like, How many times

do we get fixed

on a strategy beyond what it's working,

or we find a gimmick that works well, and so we

just stick to it, or we're unwilling

to change something like a brand color

because we're really, really connected to it, and and we don't

let it evolve. because it's casual.

It's there as possible. Right? Like, you had other clean clothing, but that t

shirt was comfortable and available, so t shirt it is. Right? Like

so I think I mean, it's a stretch, like, many, many metaphors on

this show, but I do think there's something of, like, we go with the

tried and true over the innovative. And a lot of the time,

that's the correct choice, but sometimes it's also a smelly choice

that maybe we should place, and maybe you should, like, you know, get a

clean t shirt. Well and then it's also like, that's the fun part of entrepreneurship.

Right? Like, once you have something that works, you actually have a little bit more

room to experiment with other things.

Right? And then you can always bring it back. You can always wash the shirt

and put it back on. You can always see that. Well, like, I'm even thinking

about my wardrobe right now. It is winter in Nebraska and we are, like, on

our freaking last nerve, like, as as a as a world right

now, like, in the state. We're just like, is spring yet. And I'm like, I'm

getting so annoyed with my clothing choices. I'm like, do I hate everything I

own, or is it just, like or is it just time to retire these clothes

to the closet? And part of me is, like, some of these things, you know,

old favorites I've had for, like, 10 years. I'm like, maybe you do retire it.

What would that look like for you, Ali, to, like, go invest in a new

sweater that you, like, really love and show up better as, you know,

versus you know? So sometimes same old same old is like, yeah.

But What would it look like? Yeah. What would it look like if I, like,

Marie Kondo, bless and release this thing. Yeah. Right?

But, also, oh my god. There's another one. Like, Are we blessing and releasing

our content? Are we are we still are we putting it out

so that it can turn into something new and impact people and hopefully come

back to us in the form of feedback, or are we so fixated

on how it's being received? We're not really letting it go. Oh my

gosh. Yeah. I mean, guys, don't look at your unsubscribes for

starters. Right? Like, part of our job as

creators and problem solvers is to put out content

and see how it lands. Right? If you are micromanaging every

email that goes out or every blog post or every Instagram post,

like, you're gonna paralyze yourself, and you're gonna lose the freedom of just

creating with your audience in mind. Right?

So So don't, yeah, don't hyper fixate

on that. Don't even look at your unsubscribes. Like, don't click through and see who

they are because you're gonna find out it was somebody you actually know in real

That's so sad. And you don't need that. So, like, what I tell people

to do is, like, you're sending out emails if you especially if you're getting

started. send the dang email. Like, what you know right

now, even if it's not polished, even if it's not, like, the most helpful thing

on the Internet, is still going to help someone. Yep. So get

the message out there. Like, I and I I turn in my early nurture

emails, like, my very early ones. They're part of my nurture sequence. And, like,

they're not the best copywriting, but the message is

still important. The message is there. And so and I can always go back and

tweak them. But for the most part, it's like -- They exist because they're out

there. They exist, and they're out there. And then what you do is, like then

you go back and gather the data. 6 months later, a year later, see what

people have engaged with the most. Mhmm. And then

yeah. But otherwise, like -- We can't fix what we don't know.

Right? And so I think a lot of the time when people come to me

and they're like, okay. Okay. I need to write these email campaigns, and they need

to be perfect right from the get go. I'm like, they're never gonna be perfect

from the get go because we don't know how they're gonna be received. We can

make our best estimations based on best practices

and your brand and your audience. But because

of trends or things that will change or the

weird Zeitgeist that nobody understands, but it happens.

Like, You know, somebody the lemon bar email

might not do well, and we're shocked. And then suddenly, lemon

bars become totally in vogue, and it blows we don't know, but we

also don't know until we check things like your open

rate and your response rate and your click rate and not your unsubscribes.

Like, Well and those things just can't don't let them

dictate your entire content schedule and, like, what you're

creating. because you're gonna lose your soul in the process.

Explain. If you're gonna bend to every whim of what people want or don't want

or the style they want it or don't want it, know that you're gonna get

exhausted because people are gonna say, well, now I want it in video. Now I

want it as a PDF. Now I want it as whatever. Like, you get to

be like I kinda say, like, you're, like, the magazine editor. you have all this

information. It's just how are you going to present it. You still wanna listen to

your people. I would say it's more important to

what I say, Darren Rouse from pro blogger. I listen to him speak once. And

he was like, if you put too much emphasis on what everyone thinks, you're just

creating for money's sake and you lose your, like, passion for it. But if you're

only doing it passion driven and you're not making any money and you're not actually

engaging with people and you're not delivering what they want, you're gonna make no money,

and then you're gonna be out of business. So there has to be, like, a

balance there. Yeah. So so as you say, like, define what

is important for you to share with people. Like, what are what is the

heartbeat, what is your soapbox, create content around that,

but then also ask your audience and make sure that you're answering their questions. Like,

I swear, like, the whole first year of me writing emails was just, like, what

are people asking -- Yeah. -- and answering those questions. And it's a practice in

defining your own intellectual property. How would I solve this problem? I mean, that's the

exact same question I ask when when I'm devining

new programming. right, is, like, what do I get asked all the

time? Right? And and so everything has a kind of,

like, size gauge. Right? So I always use Goldilocks than

3 bears. Like, if it's a bite sized

chunk of your content, intellectual property,

thought leadership, whatever, perfect for an email.

Right? If it's a mama bear sized chunk of like

this plus go in a little deeper, that's an awesome lead magnet.

And if it's a full problem solved, then that goes behind your

paywall. Right? But -- Yeah. -- we still gotta know what we wanna say, and

I love fuh. This word that you used

that I don't think I've ever heard used about branding or visibility

or outreach before. You used the word heartbeat.

Wow. Tell me more about what it means for your brand and your

vision to have a heartbeat. Well, it

makes it how do I wanna say this?

If you don't I mean, it's it's kind of cheesy to think of, like, you

need to know your why. Like, that that feels like cute. talk about Simon

Scenic on this show all the time because that book is damn good and important.

Right? Like, your why is important. I'm sorry. It's tight,

everybody, but it's true. Or we think about it this way. Like,

as the content creator, you are the person you are the

face. You are the living being. You're not a

content generating AI machine. You are presenting new

thoughts new ways of thinking, we are just helpful thoughts. Not

everything you create has to be, like, the most original thing on the earth. Right?

Like, nothing original anymore? Every email that you

send has got to be a Nobel Prize winner or

GTFO. Like, if you're not gonna win a Pulitzer, don't do it. No. I'm just

kidding. Why are you even showing up today? Yeah. Right. But, like,

what? You're totally right because that pressure we put on where we're like, I

couldn't find the perfect adjective for

scrumptious. And so it's just Oh, thanks a disaster.

And it's like, dude, come on. Just send it. Well and when

I think of heartbeat, like, Notice how everything I'm saying is

like, you still need to talk to your audience. Right? That's what that was the

first thing I shared. Ask them, send a survey, add a

survey to your welcome sequence or when people first opt in so that you can

learn more about them. Like, my and I guess my

heartbeat my heart is to serve the people whose attention I

have, whether it's my clients, whether it's people on my email list,

you know, I'm giggling my ass off because I just

figured out the transition of the pop culture piece. And

Here comes listeners, put your seat belt on.

If Elizabeth Bennett had sent out a

survey to the

people that she met. at the dance. It probably

woulda helped her to know that maybe she

was being prideful and prejudiced.

And and, also, if Mister Darcy had considered his audience

at all, he, Elizabeth Bennett, probably wouldn't have had to send the damn

survey because he would have communicated better. That's right.

That's right. We're talking about pride and prejudice today, folks.

Know your audience. Yeah. Know your audience. and how you show up.

Yeah. Right? Because here's what Mister Darcy did. Mister Darcy sent out a welcoming

email that was not so welcoming. He says, I'm here.

Do you see me? Do you see what I have? Do you want what I

have? That's not exactly welcoming. I wouldn't I

wouldn't say say subscribe to you. But he also

did the thing where he goes I mean, and I've totally seen people do this

in their email marketing where it's like, this email list is not

for assholes. and ugly people. And you're like,

did you really come out the gate with an insult trying to be

charming? Like, I guess she's not attractive enough to

dance with, but whatever. Like, what? Did you really just say,

like, it's one thing to be very clear about who you're for and who you're

not for. But, like, being a bitch right out the gate is an

interesting move, Darcy. Well, and, like so I think

Elizabeth's reaction is completely valid. Right? Well, if

it's all gonna be about you and you're going to

insult me or talk down to me, Or

even if she slides in the slightest bit of tongue. Right? Like, I'm like, we'll

talk another time when it's not all about you. Yeah. But even if she had

sent a survey being like, hotness, Am I hot or not? She would have gotten

hot back and being like, oh, he's mean to me because he likes me

like a 3rd grader. Okay. Yes. I get it.

Okay. Maybe, like, are these things a good idea? See,

the men of PMP, I think, are really gonna teach us a lot

about emails because we got the Darcy

who's, like, insult out the gate. Keep your best content

until ever. because he knows his

audience eventually. He's like, I need to find Lizzie Bennett. Where is she?

Oh, wandering in the rain. That tracks. Right? But it

takes him a really long time to understand how understanding

his audience changes his pitch. Right? Like, come on.

But then we also have these other 2 yahoos,

Bingley, and Wickham. k? Alright.

So we got the Bingly principle, which is

like, I am going to ardently love my client

for months and never tell them and bow to the

whims of the populace and just be totally

malleable. which is also like a persuasion thing if we're just going into

Austin. But, like, you know, Mister Bingley

sends pleasant emails that says nothing.

Mister Darcy sends compliments disguised as

insults. And Mister Wickham doesn't ever tell you what he's

actually selling, he just markets to you constantly.

Yeah. Mhmm. All of that is true.

Mhmm. And then Caroline doesn't get an email list. she's

stubborn. Caroline's, like,

email is for the plebs. I don't email. The

pollers I don't email. That's disgusting.

No. Right? And then we send

poor poor Jane out wandering the

moors where she you know? Can we talk

about Mister Collins? I feel like -- Mister Collins How did

I leave him out of this? Yes. Okay. What kind of -- Please hear me.

Please hear me. Oh my god. Mister Collins only sends

sales emails. Mister Collins. Right? Mister

Wickham markets you all the time and never lets you know what he's selling until

it's too late and then he tripwires you. Whereas Mister Collins, has

never sent a content email in his life. Mister Collins

only sends by now in the next 5 minutes and you get me for life.

Like, Yep. Dad cannot read the room.

Cannot. Will not take no for an answer. He makes unsubscribing super

hard. Yeah. I don't think he even honors unsubscribes.

Probably not. He's breaking slow sorts of loss. I think he's one of those unethical

people like my freaking ex boyfriend who sudden like, why

how many times do I have to unsubscribe from your list, bro? And

then I get put back on it. Like, that's that's that's the mister

Collins of this whole -- He's like, you know, you want it. She's like, pretty

sure I don't. Pretty sure I don't. No.

No. Yeah. No. They're all terrible. Even

Mister Bennett. Like, Mister Bennett doesn't send any emails.

Once a quarter, he might send out a little like,

hey. Are you still interested on staying on the list? And then doesn't ever

actually say anything in between. Like, just sort of sits in his living room and

waits for people to come to him. Well, or he's taking so much time

consuming what's possible, but not taking action.

See. Just hanging out in that library. See. Just

hanging out in that good old library. Oh my god.

Alright. So we have Collins who only send sales emails, Wickham, who

only sends flashy, marketing, trendy emails, Like, Wickham

has a TikTok account, hardcore. Not that

I'm dogging TikTok, but, you know, it's shiny. Darcy's got a

hate blog. that sends insulting

emails. And Mister Bingley wants to be everybody's best friend and says

nothing. Okay. Yeah. I think that's fair. I think

that's totally fair. How much how much

better can things have gone off from the get go? Ugh.

if Darcy, like, ask some other questions. I'm thinking

mostly, Darcy and Elizabeth, they went through some stuff. Yeah. They went through some I

mean, they are the pride and the prejudice. So, yeah, I mean, they went

through a lot. Well, then there's that whole like, he writes her an actual letter.

Mhmm. Like, he has his these are my confession. Like,

has his moment, and then she stares in the mirror for, like, 6 hours?

Yeah. I mean, like, we all do. Right? We get a love letter. We stare

at ourselves. We, like, have an existential crisis. But,

I mean, I just hate this there is this theme and I already brought up

my favorite, which is persuasion, but there is this theme in Austin of,

like, when I opened my mouth to speak, I sound like a complete

moron or asshole. And yet, when I write it in

a letter, suddenly, everything's okay, but that's also true

because when we talk, we talk all over the place. But if you're

sitting down to put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard,

Right? Like, we tend to get our shit together a little bit better.

Yeah. Well and, like, I guess we should say too, like, what

each of those characters are doing are not bad, they

just shouldn't be isolated. Yeah. They're miscommunicating.

They're misfiring good intent with the exception of Mister Wickham.

Like, even Collins, who's only sending a sales email, he's just

like, okay. He he has a guru in his ear being like, position

yourself. position yourself. Be proud. Know your value, Mister

Collins. You're a good man, Mister Collins. Be you're gonna be a good

reliable husband, Mister Collins, so just only talk about what you can do for

them forever. Right? He's like, he got good coaching. It just

wasn't complete. Yeah. And it was all about him.

Right. Right. What would Charlotte's

email situation look like? Oh god. Don't forget

Charlotte floating in the background, so quiet. So quiet. It would

be like it would be like the one sentence, like, whisper

email. Like, hi.

What's going on with you? Is there anyone alive out there?

Hello? Would she feel like a bother when she sends her emails? Yeah. Like, I

don't wanna bother you, but I feel like a lot of the women in

PNP would feel like their emails are a bother. I feel like the only person,

like, similar on the Wickham front, feel like the only person who's like, I get

to wake up and send an email today is like Lydia with maybe

a bonus of kitty. Like, And and, also, I combine them in my head all

the time as Kitty Lydia because I'm like, also learn a lot. Right? But, like,

I feel like Lydia has the

Lydia is the influencer who is

taking close ups in a kiddie pool in her backyard to make

it look like she's at, like, Mar a Lago or some shit. Like,

you're like, what are you even doing? But yeah. And then she meets

Wickham who only sends Mark getting emails, and the 2 of them are like, we're

shiny influencers now. Oh, man. That just

imagining Wickam and Lydia in today's context. Kinda

fun. It gives it, like, a British invite for you to, like, you know, put

some Nicki Minaj in the back of that, and suddenly it all makes sense. You're

like, yeah. I get that. Right? But then but but that's

there's there's emailing for attraction and marketing for a

track and that is bold and bright and

shiny, and that is Lydia and Wickham, and that serves a purpose.

Right? And then there are the deep heartfelt Darcy letters

I have to reveal my deepest secrets to you, and that reveals

stuff. And that's important. And then there are the Collins. No. No. No.

Wait. Please do buy from me, and here's why. Like, all of these things in

combination work beautifully but when we only do

the one thing, when we don't mix it up,

We become a one trick pony, which we do not want to be because that

it's easier for people to disregard us. Right.

Well, like, doing a sales a sales launch, if you

will, the Charlotte's of the world are gonna send one email. Yeah. Be like, oh,

man. I just hope that works. Nobody likes it. You know? Whereas I

think of, like, Darcy doing a sales sequence, I recently edited

one for a client who, yeah, told some of her story. about her,

like, weight loss experience -- Mhmm. -- and why intuitive eating you know, like, that

ended up being, like, a lead into the course. But, like, her story

just it and it performed super well because people are,

like, I too have that £30 that I just can't lose.

Yep. Right? And that's giving people permission to say, like, the way that you're feeling

not that weird because I felt that. Come along on my journey.

And you're much more a dip like, likely to do that because --

Mhmm. -- you don't feel alone. Right. Can't forget that there are

people. And, like, the stories matter, the context

and value matters. Yes. Right? Like, the the Collins

relationship is just like, dude, it's like you don't even see

me. Right. Oh, man. The fact that he was like, he came to town for

Jane, and then was like, Elizabeth, I've been thinking about you this whole time. And

I'm like, easy. I know that's not true. It's like Peter Pan coming back

for Wendy's granddaughter. You're like, gross, dude. grass. Yeah.

Boundaries. Read the room, dude. Come on. Like, ugh. Boundary.

Yeah. Boundaries. Exactly. But, yeah, you don't know the context.

Right? And if you did know the context, it would be helpful. If you knew

I mean, famously, very famously, my very

astute husband, Ryan, is really,

really annoying to watch movies with, especially movies based on

classics. Because when you're reading, you might be like,

That's really interesting. But then you get through and you're like, oh, I had a

feeling that guy was gonna be a jerk. No. No. I introduced

Ryan, the pride and prejudice, through this movie version that we are discussing today.

Right? And the second that Rupert Friend walks on screen, as

Mister Wickham, Ryan immediately goes.

I don't trust this mister Wickham. And I'm

like, cool. On one hand, I'm like, good. Good instinct. You shouldn't.

And on the other hand, I'm like, You just wasted a half hour of movie

for you when we figure that out. But not for nothing, if Darcy

came out at the very beginning, it was like, hey. Let me spill some tea

on this dude. He's not ethical. He's a butt head,

and you should stay away from him. Instead of just standing across the room and

pouting about it, Like, if he had been forthcoming, it'd been like, that

dude, hurt my sister. If he had even been like, hello, I

have a sister. If we could find out about the sister before we go

two hundred pages in, he might be a bit more sympathetic. Right? So,

like, the question that I have for our listeners

is What secrets are you swirling away that don't need to

be secretive? And I'm not saying don't have boundaries.

I'm saying it's a whole

range of what you disclose and when you don't have to tell

your sister's social security number, but the fact that she exists

might be important. Yeah. Are you so you're saying, you know, we can

bring in some of those personal elements? Yes.

Yes. The only personal element that we had about Darcy

at the beginning is that he's BFFs with Bingway. And

Bingley's so not and rich as shit. Right? It's like, okay. He's

rich. He's visiting, and he's friends with Bingley. And then Bingley gives

us so little in the form of differentiation that,

like, okay. All we know about these is that they're 2 rich dudes. That one's

kind of dopey and sweet, and that one is hot and an asshole. Okay.

Right? Even in one of my favorite things to do because, you know, I watched

this movie on repeat. Like, you just I mean, as you should.

Just watch it again. It's like going from the

last couple scenes, especially the one where he's, like, walking across the meadow, and he

is disheveled. So -- Like, his shirt is open. His hair's

a mess. Like -- He's wet. Yep. And then you

start the next you start the movie over again, and he's all buttoned up. And

you see these, like, very distinctly different darcy's, and

you're like, I don't -- Yeah. Like and and part of me just, like, loves

that. Like, love seeing him, like, so torn down,

like, so op not, like, that sounds mean. Like, turn down. But, like, just

so, like -- Unfiltered, unglossy.

Yeah. You know, like, I think that's very often

too of, like, let's take some people down the peg that's necessary.

But, like, normally, in order to do that, there's, like, a scandal or someone

gets sick in bed for, like, a month and a half, and then, like,

everybody saw, you know, unbazed Jane for a

month and it still worked through. They're like, oh, love. Right?

But but no. Yeah. He's wandering

the wet moors at, like, 5

o'clock in the morning with unbrushed hair at a

wet t shirt in an unfun way. And

then he by the time he runs into her, he just has to tell the

truth because why else would he be out

wandering the wet at 5 AM other than to

disclose. Yeah. I I I do appreciate that he didn't

beat around the bush. He's like, I love. I love. I love.

I love you. The triple love is real fun. I

love I love I love you.

He also just really loves to say things like multiple types, Missus Darcy.

Missus Darcy. Missus Darcy. We're like, we get it. You like to whisper

things three times. At the beginning of the movie slash book, if you

could have been like a come off as kind of an asshole. I'm an asshole.

I'm an asshole, then maybe that would have been helpful. But -- Can I get

some clues outside? Like, a hint?

Can I get a hint? Can we just put, like, a fuck boy pin on

him and just be like, oh, yeah. He'll get there. But it is interesting, like,

watching him develop, like, generosity. Right? And he doesn't like, it

wasn't flashy. She wasn't even supposed to know that he had rescued the wedding. No.

Like, There are a lot of things and maybe that's part of your heartbeat --

Yeah. -- of, like, the content you share is, like, how can I be generous?

Like, one of the fears people always had.

Oh, how can I be generous? Well, because, like, we always

have a fear of oversharing. But what does it look like to act actually just,

like, deliver the whole thing and not leave people guessing. Right.

Like, how do you be rich in a Mister Darcy way where everybody just knows

it? and not in a Caroline Bingly way where she makes sure everybody knows it.

Like, how can you be genuinely generous and have it

be a heartbeat without telling everybody how generous you are.

And, like, that can go beyond email. That can go in how you treat your

team, how you treat your coworkers, how you treat your clients. Like, mean, I could

talk about that all day. Like -- How you treat your competitors? How you treat

your peers? How you treat your vendors? I mean,

How you treat everyone? Well and, like, we especially when Darcy

introduces his sister, and you're like, oh, there's this whole side of him that is,

like, kind. and generous. And his sister

doesn't know the difference. Mm-mm. No. She doesn't know the Darcy that we know. Well,

she doesn't leave the house. So, you know, she plays piano

in size and only knows her brother as a peach.

You know? Right. Yes. But yeah. I

mean, it must be hard to play piano all day. She has very fair

skinned. I wonder if she doesn't like the house. I don't think she does. I

think she's too I think she's too Austin ill.

Meaning, like, she's got the immune system of a tiktok. And and if

she goes out into the sun, she'll shrivel up

like Kirsten Dunst in that Vampire movie. Like, just bye bye.

Oh, man. At least she has more freedom to run around the house versus, you

know, the birthdays of the world in Jane Air. Oh,

listen. and you don't even how long is this

episode? Y'all don't even wanna I will bring you back for a J. Nair

episode because I have so many

things that I could draw about being the birther in the attic and and why

we should be. Why we should all be the birther May of our

brand, but we are not gonna talk about -- We don't have time for that

today. Tieser. Open loop. We'll come back. We're not going Bronte's.

We're staying in Austin. Alright. We'll make a persuasion reference once

or twice, but we're not going right. But but even

so, I mean, Jane Air is an entire book

about miscommunication and secrets and holding on to your

secrets. At the very beginning, if he was like, it's not Grace

pool, have this crazy wife. She lives in my attic. This

is very complicated, and I don't know how to navigate it, Jane, so maybe you

could help me before she tries to light my bet on fire. You know?

But, again, miscommunication, we squirrel away

our best content. until they've air

quotes earned it. And what happens? Your crazy wife lights your

bed on fire, or You make yourself seem like a jerk

for 2 entire seasons of balls, so nobody wants to

dance with you even though you're rich and hot.

k. Like, we can't be so stingy with our

truth. If there's a crazy woman living in your attic, just tell

people she's there. Yeah. Don't wait until you're

literally at the altar. I mean, spoilers for Jane Air. Okay? Sorry

for -- You haven't read it by now. If you haven't read it by now,

Skip Loewood School. It sucks. She stands on a stool and her

friend dies. I mean, if we're gonna spoil it, let's just spoil it. But

You know, I think but there is that idea. And, I mean, I'm

gonna make a really broad statement. That's probably totally wrong. But I

think in this era

of of these great, amazing period

classics that we love so well. A lot of the

undercurrent of it was how do women who historically

no one wants to hear from tell stories that everybody wants to. And

so there's always a muzzled woman in these books, always.

Maybe more than 1. I mean, I would argue that, like, every single

woman in J and A are down to Adele the child. is a muzzled woman.

The housekeeper is muzzled. Birth is muzzled. Grace,

even the horrible aunt. Like, they're all not saying what they need to

say. But on the Austin side of it, it's

less angry and oppressive and violent and

more languishing and yearning and

misunderstanding each other and how,

you know, we might not have to explain the deepest

darkest secrets of our life like Abrante, but we

might have to explain. I'm sore we might have to apologize

for some stuff. We might have to allow our brand to grow. We

might have to be vulnerable. We might have to change how we show

up. We might have to admit -- Mhmm. how we've evolved, we

might have to show that evolution. Right? Yeah. I think it's like I mean, I'm

an email marketing expert. It's what I do. And I had a team member

managing my email list or or my email that was going out while I was

at a conference. Well, the wrong link got sent or it was an error in

the link. So I went and fixed it during the conference. Only to duplicate the

email, write a little apology, which is, like, whatever. I'm fine doing

that. but then I had a typo in the subject line. Oh my god.

Oops. Oops. I fixed I fixed the think is what I

put. And I just hit send, and then you're like,

well, everyone makes mistakes, you know, and just, like, that doesn't

keep you from continuing to send. even right there. Like, that's a perfect

perfect message for us. And on a typo and an email

does not have to be a disaster. If it's a minor typo, you don't

have to own it. If it's a broken link, the word oops can be your

friend. Mhmm. What if Mister Darcy had just said?

Oops. I came off wrong there, Lizzie. I didn't mean to

insult you to your face when I didn't know you were listening. I didn't I

don't know why I came in, so brass. I apologize. and she could have been

like, oops. I'm sorry. I've been sending your emails to spam.

Oops. Maybe write me a letter next time, and then I'll see you in the

rain. It it just teaches us how we how we show up to people, and

then we can be intentional about that. Right? Like, all all I do is write

welcome sequences. Right? It's like, how do you actually introduce yourself to people so that

they feel welcome, connected, They have a full understanding of who

you are and what they're gonna get from you before they just, like, hop in

midstream as though they've been there forever. So they get the right first

impression. And so do you? because it goes both ways. Oh, freaking

gorgeous. Alright. I got two more questions for you before I release

you to your gorgeous day. We're back in the day.

We're having salads, and you and I are taking a

turn about the room, which literally for people that are not in the Austin

world means you walk around the room in a circle. Okay? So you

and I are taking a turn about the room, and

we're talking. And someone needs to

be impressed. Suddenly, a high profile client comes in, But

in order to impress them, you can only use the hobbies of

the period on which women were graded. Are you

going to choose to play an instrument,

needlepoint, sing

garden, or something else. speak in French?

Oh, you're pulling out the exotic

card. You're gonna be like, hold on. for that. My god. Because in this

imaginary world, I can speak French. For reason, this world, I cannot. So we're just

I can speak the modern languages. Oh, she's

so worldly. And for people that understand

how worldly you truly, truly are, What is the best way for our

listeners to come into your world and start a conversation with you? So I

created a landing page for y'all called duet.co/tltq.

where you can get my freebie on writing your first welcome sequence, namely

such so you can yourself. You can also learn more about my services and

how you can work with me. I do done for you services for content creators

and bloggers so that we can really build that brand loyalty and

awareness, but also drive traffic for sales and site traffic

Gorgeous. And that's duet, which is d u e t t,

titties. c o. Dot c o. that,

c o. Well, I'm so glad we finally did this. It was

so goofy and wonderful, and wow, we pulled a lot of lessons out

today. Ali, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being my guest today.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Annie. Oh, heck. Yeah. Y'all I will be back

in just a second with my final thought and your homework for this

week.

Well, hey there. Alright. I know we went a little in the

weeds with the idea of your email marketing being

a character from pride and prejudice. But seriously, have you

ever thought about what it would be like to date your

email list or better yet. What it would feel

like if your email list was trying to date you?

Are you asking the kind of questions that foster connection, or

are you just being disruptive or making assumptions? Are

you coming off too soft too meek to bingly ask

or possibly too brusque and too cocky like a Mister

Darcy. What is the tone of the emails

you send and how frequently, how ardently, how

earnestly are you expressing your love to your

audience. Email is a weird beast, and it certainly

doesn't feel like it's for everyone, but it is the now

It is the future, and it is the most consistent marketing tool that

we all wield and own the intellectual property

for. No matter what Facebook does, no matter what, Twitter

does, our email lists are our own. Your homework

this week is to look at the emails you've been sending lately and to

assign them a persona. What kind of boyfriend,

girlfriend, or they friend are you putting out into the world And is that

the kind of friend that you want to be? Are you showing

up in those emails? How do you want to show up?

Are you leaving too much to potential miscommunication

and chance, or are you playing all your cards? If you're

holding back this week, I challenge you to let them in

a little more. Obviously, within boundary,

and in a way that feels semi comfortable for you. But in

order to stand out from the competition, we have to be willing to

connect more deeply. That's what I encourage

you to do.

Hey. Thanks, for listening. If this episode kept you laughing and

learning, I have 2 requests for you. First, make sure

you hit that subscribe or follow button depending on your platform

so you never miss an episode. And also,

more importantly, If you are looking for support,

inspiration, networking, collaborations, or just a

chance to hang out with me, NEP Ruggles, and our fantastic

guests make sure that you are a member of our

LinkedIn community, the legitimati, It is a weird

and wonderful place. I can't even believe it's on LinkedIn, and

we want you there. you'll find the link in the show

notes. Big shout out, as always, to the fabulous dudes who

helped me make this show. My producer and editor Andrew

Sims, hypopal impact, my theme composer,

Riley Horbacio, and my show art creator, Francois

Vigno. See you next time.