April 5, 2023

109: On Webinars, Credibility & Pleasantville (feat. Tom Poland)

109: On Webinars, Credibility & Pleasantville (feat. Tom Poland)
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Stitcher podcast player badge
Google Podcasts podcast player badge
YouTube podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge

Are you suffering from or through "random acts of marketing?" Online visibility is such a noisy endeavor - so many options, so many "shoulds." How do you know what's right for you and which efforts to double down on? And- is the webinar dead?

This week, Annie P. is joined by the fabulous "leads guru" known as Tom Poland. As a multiple bestselling author and marketing expert, Tom helps professionals generate high-quality leads in 151 cities across the globe. With 39 years of experience under his belt, Tom has started and sold numerous businesses, led teams of over 100 people, and generated more than $20 million in revenue.

Then, Tom and Annie have a frank discussion about delegation, creation, gimmicks, proof, and the power of intention before living into lessons learned through the color-bending classic, "Pleasantville."

- Connect with Tom through his website and LinkedIn.
- Don't forget to check out his podcast, Marketing The Invisible.
- You can watch Annie's episode on YouTube!- Get your free copy of Tom's book at www.GetTomsFreeBook.com

What's Inside:
00:00:00 - Transparency vs. Hype
00:01:33 - This week, Tom suggests we focus on lead-gen.
00:04:59 - Predictability can be so boring, but it just might keep the dream alive.
00:10:54 - Outsourcing the lackluster stuff
00:13:59 - The real and unexpected reason 80% of marketing strategies fail
00:14:47 - Passion is the missing ingredient in most webinars
00:16:56 - "Skin in the game:" not to little, not too much
00:18:27 - WTF is a hybrid webinar?
00:19:49 - To attract the right audience, pick the right problem.
00:25:09 - Running away with Hugh Jackman: A Teachable Moment
00:27:27 - Webinars and Demos
00:29:31 - Sales Ambush! (And how to avoid it, obviously.)
00:38:32 - Welcome to Pleasantville.
00:40:56 - Are your following your "clues?"
00:41:30 - The myth of the "perfect" webinar
00:44:02 - GetTomsFreeBook.com 
00:45:21 - This week your homework is to challenge your perceptions.

Wanna binge? Check out these related episodes:
15: On Authority, Delegation & Jeopardy (feat. Terry McDougall)
37: On Connection, Curiosity & Murder She Wrote (feat. Nikki Nash)
40: On Kindness, Differentiation & Revenge of the Nerds (feat. Mike Michalowicz)
75: On Relationship Marketing, Visibility & Survivor (feat. Angie Trueblood)
89: On Likes, Leads & Somebody Feed Phil (feat. Hannah Acosta)

Grab your free copy of Annie P. Ruggles' bestselling business fable, The Coach Who Would Not Sell,at sellcoachsell.com. Use the code "Legitimate."
Transcription 00:00:00 So how will we start our marketing that we've all been there in audiences where some do I say sleeves, bag has tried to BS us and hype us into parting with some money, and it was, you know, it was just basically dirt in a box with a nice golden label we were buying, metaphor speaking. So we don't want that experience of a lack of transparency. We don't want that experience of hype. So let's make sure we're not doing it to our audiences. 00:00:29 Oh, I'm not giving up without a fight, and I'm not sleep until I wake it up. 00:00:57 Hello, and welcome to Too Legitimate to quit Instantly actionable small Business Strategies with a pop culture spin. I am your host, Annie P. Ruggles, and my guest today is the brilliant Tom Poland. Tom Poland is a multiple bestselling author specializing in the generation of high quality leads for professionals in 151 cities around the world. He started and sold numerous businesses over the last 39 years and has led teams of over 100 people, generating more than $20 million in revenue. 00:01:33 Tom lives and works from his home on the sunshine coast of Australia, complete with his much loved wife, dog, tennis court, swimming pool, and private rainforest. Hi, Tom. Good morning all the way around the world. I am so excited that I get to ask you my favorite question. What do small business owners need to focus on this week? 00:01:57 Pleasure to be here, Annie, and thanks for having me on the show. And I think what they need to focus on this week and every week is the development of a lead generation system that will pump blood into the body of their business. In other words, marketing. It's the blood, it's the LifeStream of any business. You can have the best product in the world. 00:02:21 You can have the best team in the world, you can have the best service in the world, the best support, but if you don't have new clients coming in, your business is a house of cards. I mean, did you mean to bring an amazing sound bite right out of the gate? We're a minute in, Tom. My God. You think it's going to be a hard one to top. 00:02:43 I've got a lot more. That's totally true. You could have the best team, the best product, the best angle, the best service in the world. If you don't have people to sell your product to, you don't have a business. And we can't wait until air quotes launch time to go out and find those people. 00:03:08 Right. I like to do this with everything, is ask the question, what's the one thing? And by that I mean is what's the one thing that's critical that we really need to nail that everything else will flow out of that? Because I have actually some frontal lobel damage. As a kid, I had a bad accident, and I don't have the capacity to process complexity. 00:03:29 So what that means is I have to look at whatever it is, however complex it is, I have to simplify it. In order for me to understand, in order for me to take action that's going to be functional and helpful, I have to bring this thing down. So what's the one thing question is being really helpful to me in building various businesses over the year. And when you look at a business and you say, what's the one thing that we absolutely have to nail? It's an unfortunate answer for many people because they don't want this answer, but it's get the lead generation systemized so that we have a predictable flow of new clients. 00:04:03 Because without that, as I said, we're going to have a very shaky business. You said the magical S word that so many people fear. You said systemized, right. So that's something that I know that even as a marketer, I have accidentally neglected in the past because I do these big marketing events or list builders or lead magnet things, as it were, launch, et cetera. Exactly. 00:04:35 And as such, what happens is that I forget about the systems involved. And so I'm kind of going from launch event marketing stunt to launch event marketing stunt. How do we get out of that trap into building better systems for ourselves? Right? There's a heck of a lot to unpack there. 00:04:59 But I just want to take the fear out of the word system and work backwards from outcome. So if we want to have not just security but prosperity in a business, we need predictability, we need to know that if we perform certain actions, all other things being equal, we will get a certain result. 00:05:28 To me, that means new clients coming in pretty much every week of the year. That's what gives the business and my team and me security around our lifestyles, security around being able to support and service our clients and prosperity. So if we take that as a starting premise, that we want predictable flow of new clients virtually every week of the year, and we look back from that, we said, well, what has to happen in order for us to get that outcome? What is the input then? We need to identify an action or a series of actions that when we, metaphorically speaking, push that button or pull that lever, those actions are going to give us a known result. 00:06:06 And that's what a system does. The systemization for what a bit of a metaphor? If you go to New York at a McDonald's and you order a Big Mac, you're going to get pretty much the same Big Mac as you get in Los Angeles or Sydney or London, right? And there will be some slight regional variations, but the Big Mac is put together the same way. There's a bell that rings and a 14 year old can flip that burger at the right time and produce the same result. 00:06:33 Right. And I don't want to McDonald's my business as such. It's different. I'm not saying it's the same, but in terms of a metaphor, it's not a bad one. And a system can be as simple as this. 00:06:45 Step one log into LinkedIn. Step two, search for your ideal clients. Step three, do ten connection requests every day. Step four on the acceptances, send them an article. It can be as simple as that. 00:06:59 Now, I'm not suggesting that that particular system will deliver results for you. I don't think it will. But it is an example of how simple a system can be. And I think that's the starting point is a simple checklist. Now, we have a business now with the team. 00:07:14 We have instructors in Europe, UK, North America. We have an operations team, which is our technical team in the Philippines. And it all started from me simply taking literally a piece of paper and making a list of something that I could do on a weekly basis that I believe would generate results and refining it and fine tuning it from there. So it doesn't have to be a daunting thing, the system. We just have to buy into the if you like buying into the idea of predictable security and prosperity, then you have to have a rinse and repeatable series of actions, albeit simple or complex, that is going to produce that result. 00:07:54 Otherwise you fall into the trap of random acts of marketing where you wake up in a Monday morning and you go, oh crap, I'm running out of clients. What can I do? And what can I do is normally go to a trade show, go to a conference, go to a business networking meeting and hand out business cards and hope to get lucky. We can do better than that. Random acts of marketing. 00:08:16 I'm freaking dying. I feel like there needs to be a public service announcement that's, like, you too are a victim of random acts of marketing. I do not miss those days at all. But you know, one thing that I think is so interesting and so key here is I've heard this concept said to me a bunch as consistency, and consistency is important. But what you said that's so freaking different and so clarifying is predictability, right? 00:08:47 Because some people ask, well, what does it really mean to be consistent? And predictability means I know how this is going to work. It's an assembly line. Pull a liver, push a button and it works, right? And I think that for people that say, well, I post every day. 00:09:04 Great, okay, can that be systematized? Could that be made easier? Could it be more predictable with less effort? And I think that is so brilliant as a differentiator from just like make sure you post every day, okay, make sure you're following the same processes. Yeah, let me give you some more differentiators then. 00:09:25 So here's the problem with consistency. We are not and almost all of my clients are what I call, metaphorically speaking, dogs. And this is a bit of a backstory behind this. I had a client when I used to go into people's businesses and do consulting, and I had a client who was very frustrated with their project manager. It was because my client was the CEO and the founder of the company. 00:09:55 He was the entrepreneur and he could go, ABC, we're there, right? Everyone just fill in the gaps. Go on, off you go. And his project manager was not he was a person that would get lost unless you went through the whole alphabet A-B-C and pretty slowly, but by golly, he was good at doing that. As a project manager has to manage so many details and so many moving parts and so many people and suppliers and development, blah, blah. 00:10:16 It was a construction business. And Mark, my client, was complaining to me that his operations manager was too slow and he didn't get it. And he said, you should train him, you should fix him. And I said, well, it'd be completely pointless. And he said, well, why? 00:10:32 And I said, Because that means he'd be the same as you. And I said, Think of it like this you're a dog, you bark, you run around a lot, you're a people person and he's a cat. It's a complete yes. There's two animals, there's two ears, there's two eyes, there's four legs, but they're completely different beasts. And if there was two of you, then one of you would be redundant. 00:10:54 So the dog versus cat thing is a metaphor. The entrepreneur, the coach, the consultant, the speaker, the author tend to be big picture people. Other people will go out and get the mail from the letterbox and they come back with twelve ideas, but they forgot the mail. And they like meeting with people, but they don't want to do research and they don't want to do posting, and they don't want to do three articles to LinkedIn every day because it's boring. They'd rather have ideas, develop stuff and talk to people like clients. 00:11:24 So that's what a dog does. Dogs bark, cats meow. So if you have a dog and you say to a dog, you need to meow and you need to do it consistently, it won't happen. No. Let me sum all this up by saying as soon as you figure out something in marketing that works, and we can unpack that given time, what works? 00:11:44 What doesn't work, because there's a bucket load of stuff that doesn't work. So as soon as you figure out the system, then you must outsource that to a freelancer. And I love the Filipinos because they're loyal, are smart and hardworking, and you've got to find someone who likes detail, who likes routine. Because that's what a system is. A system delivers routine. 00:12:08 And there are people who want to wake up in the morning and do a certain thing, follow a certain system, which generally involves Google and spreadsheets and researching and emails and checking and all that stuff, which drives me absolutely nuts, which is why I've never done it consistently. But they want to do it. They want to know. The cats want reliability. They want certainty. 00:12:29 They want routine. They want to follow the hamburger flipping beeps, as it were. And that's the person who should be initiating a marketing, because you wake up in the morning and you don't go, oh, goody, it today. I get to post a LinkedIn, or oh, goody, today I get to research and find partners and follow up emails and chase people. You don't want to do that, so don't do it. 00:12:52 Get out of your life. Because by my estimate, 80% of marketing fails for one simple reason, which is that you don't really, truly in your hearts want to do it. So the stuff in the marketing system that you don't want to do, you find someone who does want to do it, and you pay them. For the Philippines, what would be a very generous seven or $8 US an hour, and you give them 5 hours a week. So your overheads are, say, $40 tops, and they initiating all your marketing, and you're just waking up on a Monday morning and looking at the appointments that they've set for you in one form or another. 00:13:27 As I said, we can unpack that, but it's critically important that you do not stay in charge of your own marketing. You create the system. You get it working. And as I said, we can unpack that, but someone else needs to initiate it. Otherwise you won't do it consistently. 00:13:43 And if you don't do it consistently, you end up with roller coaster revenue. There's another phrase roller coaster revenue. I'm still laughing about random acts of marketing. That is the most relatable content I've ever heard. But, you know, I'm going to get you riled up here, Tom. 00:13:59 Here's my question. So first off, I got to go back to the hidden mic drop that you dropped there. 80% of marketing fails because we just don't want to do it. Yes, guilty. I can't speak for the whole world on that, but I could certainly speak for me on that. 00:14:15 And let me tell you, one of the things that I know I need to do, but oh, my God, I do not want to is host a damn webinar. 00:14:32 How do I wrap my head around getting myself to want to do a webinar? Get me excited about a webinar, Tom, please, I beg you. Well, if in your heart of heart you really don't want to do it, don't do it. That's the first thing. Find somewhere on the way that works. 00:14:47 I could be coaxed. I am coaxable. Well, it's an interesting thing, because if I said to you, Annie, I want you to host this webinar, and I'm going to pay you $10 for it. You're probably not going to be too excited about that, right? Not so much. 00:15:06 But what if I said to you, Annie, I want you to host this webinar, and I'm going to pay you a million dollars for it? Would you get excited? Oh, of course. Right. So if you're focusing on the input, the technical aspects, for example, of running a webinar and setting it up and freaking out about that, or you've run webinars, you've just got no result whatsoever, then you're not going to get excited about it, and it's not going to be a passion. 00:15:30 You're not you're going to avoid it, and you fall into the random marketing trap. If, however, you had a webinar that you knew that people would give you a standing ovation for, digitally speaking, then you would get emails afterwards saying, that was probably one of the very best webinars I've ever attended, thank you very much. And you've got new clients coming out of it, predictably regularly eight or ten every time you run a webinar, you'd probably be suddenly quite excited about running a webinar. Yeah, that's true. Next thing is, you run these shows all the time, and you're thinking on your feet, and maybe you add some more spontaneity to the webinar. 00:16:08 Maybe there's a way you can run the webinar that's a reflection of your personality and what excites you. It's not death by PowerPoint. Clearly, with someone like you, it's going to be more interactive. For example, you can do hot seats on webinars. You can pick a random volunteer from the audience because you personally would be very good at the impromptu, the thinking on your feet. 00:16:28 And I think you'd like that, and you'd join it. So you can build that. And audiences love that impromptu stuff because they feel like you're being put on the spot as much as anyone else. And I am a weird, weird actor person who loves being put on the spot. So that right there. 00:16:43 Okay, you're warming up the oven now, Tom. You're getting there. Keep going. So part ten of my ten part leadology model in my book, and I have to go into a low voice for this to be impressive. The science of being a demand. 00:16:56 My first person talks about your style and how important it is that your marketing suits your style. And just to clarify, I'm not saying you outsource all your marketing. I do think that's a mistake for a couple of different reasons. We can unpack it if you want to, but let's just say it's the initiation of your marketing that you want to outsource. The core of your marketing, which could be running a show like this or doing a webinar or standing on stage and speaking. 00:17:23 That should be you, at least to start with. Right. Last thing I'll say about webinars is with a system like Ewebinar, you can pre record the core content and you can practice it and rehearse it and drill it as often you want to just record and get it edited and published, everything that can go on to ewebinar. And you can still host the webinar. It's a hybrid. 00:17:45 The core of the webinar is pre recorded, but you're there welcoming people, pausing the video every now and then, answering questions, running polls. So it can be doing a hot seat. It can be incredibly interactive, but it means you don't have to present the same content over and over again. It's ewebinar. If you Google it, it's not an evergreen webinar. 00:18:03 It's a hybrid. It's very economical and it's fully auTomated. And that really solves the problem for the people who don't want to run a live webinar as such. That's kind of brilliant, Tom. Okay, every now and then I have to remember that my podcast is not free consulting for me and that I can't just steer my questions like that accordingly. 00:18:27 Does that okay, I told you to light me up, and you did. I'm like, okay, but what about I'm like, no, Annie interview interview. Annie, not strategize interview. But I love this idea of the hybrid because I think part of what I was so opposed to previously and you already spoke against one of these things, which is, like, my webinars were always kind of and therefore didn't really have that standing ovation content, did not really have the biggest revenue attached to it. And also, I was either teaching the same thing over and over, or I was sacrificing interactivity. 00:19:05 And I think the reason I was rebelling against webinars is there are so many tricks out there of like, oh, you're here just on time for the webinar. How convenient. And I hate that shit. So passionately. But what you're saying with the hybrid is that it could really be both. 00:19:26 I can bring my best content and show up almost like an interactive watch party. Now, that's getting me going. So my question, and I swear this is for you listeners it's not only for me, but I am curious when it comes to picking the ideal lead magnet. Lead gen. This is a really good question. 00:19:49 Webinar funnel. When we're looking at that, how do we know which problem to solve in our webinar? Because the last thing I think anybody wants is another 57 keys to X and Y. Right? Like, we really need to hone in and solve a problem. 00:20:10 Is there a metric or not a metric? Is there a method or a framework that you could walk us through on helping us pick a topic? Sure. 00:20:22 Let me just say quickly, the webinar is the ideal lead generator because it asks people to put some skin in the game, typically an hour of your time, but not too much and not too little. If you want to generate high quality leads of people that are very motivated to buy from you, it's important to remember that effective marketing is essentially just putting an offer in front of people that we are very confident are already looking for that offer versus selling, which is trying to convince people that they should be looking for that offer. In that respect, marketing is a lot easier. It's a lot more natural. It's organic, if you like, authentic. 00:20:57 It's not trying to twist people's arms. It's just doing the hard work up front and finding the people that are after what you want. Think of it like a forest where there's 100 speaking bears and somehow magically, we know that only three of those bears are hungry for honey, and you've got a honey pot. So you've got a couple of options here to find those three hungry bears. That forest being a metaphor for someone's network of subscribers. 00:21:23 But the 3% that are actually ready to buy what you've got may not be aware that you even exist or that you've got honey. You can go running through the forest and you can stick it, I don't know, grab a branch off the forest floor and sharpen it up a bit and find a sleeping bear, stick it in his bum, wake it up and wave your honey pot in front of its nose. And if it's really hungry and you're lucky and it's one of the 3%, it'll eat the honey. But if you're not so lucky, then you better be a good runner because that beer is going to be pissed off. And that's what selling does. 00:21:55 Selling goes out, outbound. And it hassles people on LinkedIn and hassles people with direct mail and advertising and phone calls. And it tries to convince people poking sleeping beers in a bum with a sharp stick because it just annoys you. What marketing does, and this is where the webinar comes in, is it just says right there's a forest of 100 sleeping bears. Three are hungry. 00:22:17 We don't know which ones. Let's just put the honeypot outside the forest and see which ones come out, because the hungry bears will probably start dreaming that they're swimming in honey or something, but they'll wake up and they go down. There's no honey. Oh, hang on, I can still swell honey. So when you run a webinar with the right title, you attract the sleeping bears to come out of the forest. 00:22:37 And that's why webinars are excellent, because you can have someone else with an email list promote your webinar. The hungry bears, metaphorically speaking, will wake up and they'll see the title in the email that they've invited you to your webinar, and that title will go, yep, that's what I've been looking for. I've been looking for that honey pot. So you end up with an audience on your webinar of people who are prepared to put skin in the game to find a solution to their problem. And it's not too much skin in the game. 00:23:07 It's kind of like a first date. It's not a marriage proposal. It's not saying, Would you like to talk with me about working together? Like, Would you like to get married? Straight off the bat? 00:23:16 It's just saying, hey, come along for this first date. It's called a webinar. And I will not train you on the solution to this problem. I'll demonstrate different mindset. You can attend the demonstration of how I work with my clients to achieve benefit, benefit, benefit. 00:23:33 Now, can we also talk about the wonder of the copy? Come along for this first date. It's called a webinar. Can I steal that? Can I have public it's? 00:23:42 Wife and deploy. I tell you where that came from. I was in the kitchen one day with my wife having a coffee. And I honestly, to this day, still don't know what happened in my brain, but something came out of my mouth which was really stupid. We've all had those moments, I hope. 00:24:00 Oh, I say dumb shit all the time. Yeah, brain sneeze. I probably said dumb shit 75 times this episode. So, yes, I love Brain sneeze that's much. Kinder to yourself, right? 00:24:12 Yeah. Well, you have the family show, right? So I'm sitting in my coffee, and my wife's on the other side of the kitchen, the breakfast bar, and I said, hey, I got a question for you. She rolls her eyeballs and I'm used to this. I said, who do you think would be the world's most irresistible man? 00:24:29 So my wife immediately shoots back and says, well, of course you are, Tom. I said, yeah, sure, right. Bald, bald, skinny, wrinkled, 65 years old. Who wouldn't want that, right? I said, no, really, who is? 00:24:43 Down, boy, down. Anyway, long story short, she comes up, and I know she's at the Jackpot, because when she tells me this person's dance name, her eyes light up, and it's like someone switched on a voltage switch in her brain, because she goes, oh, I know it's Hugh Jackman. Hugh Jackman. Yeah, I get that. And I'm just verbally thinking, right? 00:25:09 So I'm going, he's got a body Adonis would die for. He can sing, he can dance, he can act. He's got his private jet. He's got holiday homes in Mayorca and the Caribbean, and he's a philanthropist, and he's community minded, and he's environmentally conscious. Yeah, I get that. 00:25:26 Hugh Jackman. He's like the second question. I said to my wife, okay, I accept this. Let me just ask you this. If there was a knock at the door right now, and you, my beloved wife, went to the front door and pulled the door open, and standing before you was Hugh Jackman. 00:25:42 And he dropped to one knee and he held up a small red velvet box and he flipped the top. And there, sparkling in the sunshine was a diamond ring. And he said to me, said to you, you don't know me, but my name is Hugh Jackman. Would you make me the happiest man on earth? Would you run away with me right now. 00:25:54 Marry me and live with me in paradise for the rest of your life. I said, what would you say to Hugh Jackman if he proposed to you? My wife puts a copy down. She said, Will you come? You know I love you, right? 00:26:09 I'm going. Yeah, I think I know what's coming. She said, Well, I'm sorry I've run away with a guy. I mean, it's you, Jacqueline, right? And I'm sort of wiped a tear out of the corner of my eye, and I put my coffee down. 00:26:22 I say I said to my wife, I don't think you need to apologize. So I just told you I'd run away with another man if I got proposed to. I said, yeah, but it's Hugh Jackman, and I'd run away with him. I mean, when an offer is irresistible, an offer is irresistible. I mean, come on. 00:26:38 If it's a no brainer, it's a no brainer. If Hugh Jackman proposed to me, I'd be on his Leah jet in the flash. And I'm not even gay. I mean, I go along with it because it's Hugh Jackman. Right? 00:26:48 Exactly. So what this has to do we love you, Hugh. Yeah, we too. And he's an Aussie, too, so he's got to be good. So what this has to do with our dear listeners and their marketing is that we are unfortunately not the commercial equivalent of Hugh Jackman. 00:27:05 Shit. We can't just meet a prospect for the first time and say, hey, would you like to talk about working together? It'd be like proposing marriage at first sight. So the webinar is the date, and that's why I call it let's have a First Date and see how we get on. It's also a demonstration, because people, I think, have had enough of free training sessions, which turn out just to be a sales ambush, right? 00:27:27 And I learned from my 30 years ago, I started a software company about the same time as another guy called Bill Gates. He did a little better than me. He did a little better. But I discovered that if you called executives up and you said to them, I've got this. You butte software, and would you like to look at it? 00:27:49 They go, Maybe not, but if you call them up and said, I'd like to give you a demonstration. I'd like to invite you to a demonstration, they go, oh, hell, yeah. So people like the idea of sitting back and letting someone demonstrate something. So this is why our webinars, or my class Webinars, are demonstration. So that's why we use webinars. 00:28:11 It's a great first date. The title has to be benefit rich. It should follow a formula like, demonstration how my clients around the world, or whatever it is we used 151 cities around the world are generating new client inquiries in just 1 hour a week using other people's networks, and we have variation on that theme. So that's. The honeypot that sits outside the forest. 00:28:36 If you unpack the title formula, it needs to be benefit rich, it needs to contain specifics and it needs to be differentiated. So whatever words you think might be benefit rich, that's not enough. You need to express those words in a different way. For example, I could put joint ventures into the title instead of other people's networks, but people think they know what joint ventures mean. And my stuff is different so it doesn't get cut through, particularly the reticular activating system in the brain and it doesn't hit the amygdala, which is the fight flight or find out more center. 00:29:10 And so you don't get the webinar registrants that you need. So the title has got to be different to what everyone else is saying. It's got to be benefit rich and it should contain specifics because specifics increase. Believability specifics increase believability you and these phrases and these words. I also wrote down sales ambush. 00:29:31 As the founder of the non Sleazy Sales Academy, can I tell you how much I love the idea of a sales ambush that is so clear? It's the idea of like, lap. But that's another big objection that I hear from people. It's like, hold on. They asked me for an hour of my time. 00:29:47 They gave me 58 minutes of a sales pitch and started off with two minutes of something new. And I'm like, yeah, they're not doing it right. That's the bastardization of the form, not the and so what you're talking about is something that's much more valuable. And yes, there's an offer at the end, but the offers at the end, right. So what's the ratio that you like to see of teach to pitch or interact, to sell? 00:30:20 Well, I guess the first thing is to what I like to do is be very explicit with audiences and say, I'm going to show you exactly how our clients are generating new clients from other fuels networks. Please understand that this is a demonstration and it's not the product. In order to implement what I'm about to show you, you're probably going to have to work with us or someone else who knows what they're doing. And that's just being transparent at the end of it and at the end of the webinar, I will give you an offer. I think it's a really good offer, but you'll be the judge of that. 00:30:55 But in the meantime, I'm going to tell you everything I possibly can on how to do this thing because some of you won't be able to afford to work with us and I want to give you as much value as possible. But those of you who can't afford to work with us, you're probably going to want to make that choice a little later on. So I think it's important to be explicit with people that this is not designed to be a training webinar in that we're going to show you step by one, take this checklist, do this thing, et cetera. It's not a training webinar that happens after you pass money. It's a demonstration of how my clients so we want to be true to the promise in the title. 00:31:29 In our case, it's how my clients are benefit, benefit, benefit. We want to be true to that promise, but we also want to get very explicit to people because it's the truth. Unless they pay us the money and work with us and create a point of accountability and open themselves up to coaching and guidance, it's unlikely they're going to be able to make this reality. I used the metaphor of a combination safe at the end of the webinar, just before the offer, I said, and look, I've shown you how this is all done, but it's a bit like me showing you how to get into my safe. I click right, I click left, I do this, and the safe magically opens. 00:32:05 And so you might make the mistake of thinking getting into this particular safe where all this treasure is, is really easy and simple because I just showed you that I can do it. But unless you know the combination and unless you know the sequence, then it's unlikely you'll ever get into that safe. And running generating leads from other people's networks is very similar. So if people get that, then they go, okay, yeah, I can see you explained it very simply and easily, understand it, but it's not quite the same as actually doing it. So let's tell people what's in the back of their mind because that increases your relatability, because you're telling them what they're always thinking, which is, is this really demonstration? 00:32:45 Is the training? Is it what is it exactly? And is it realistic for me to implement? They're already wondering those things, so let's talk to that alphabet of the room. But it also increases your credibility because you've been completely open and transparent and honest and truthful with them. 00:32:58 You're not trying to do bait and switch or smoke and mirrors. You're just saying, guys, this is the way it is. And the people you want as clients are tuned into accepting realities. That is not something that's completely delusional. The other thing I'll add, because you mentioned the sessions, which are 98% product related and 2% good ideas, we need to appreciate that whatever your prospect's, first experience is of you, hopefully, generous, caring, insightful, value packed, is going to be the impression they will have of you after they pay you money. 00:33:44 Flipping that around. If my first experience of a presenter is bait and switch, smoke and mirrors, lack of transparency, seven stack bonuses, and if I don't buy before midnight I'm going to die, then it's probably not going to get any better after I pay the money, right? No, it's only going to get worse because they'll know that they have hooks in you. Correct. And people used, I remember in the 2016 elections in the US, some people wrote off Donald Trump. 00:34:17 Most people did. And when he got elected, people, the big question was, I wonder if he's going to act more presidential once he's actually president and love him or hate him. He acted who he was. He was Donald Trump, and he didn't change. And I'm not saying this is good or I'm not saying it's bad. 00:34:35 I don't want to get to the whole political thing. But of course he didn't change. He's donald Trump. He's going to keep doing what and anyone who's thought and hoped that he should change is delusional. So, however we start our marketing, we've all been there in audiences where some do, I say sleaze bag, has tried to BS us and hype us into parting with some money, and it was just basically dirt in a box with a nice golden label we were buying, metaphor speaking. 00:35:00 So we don't want that experience of a lack of transparency. We don't want that experience of hype. So let's make sure we're not doing it to our audiences. I love that we don't want the experience of hype, so let's make sure we aren't doing that to our audiences. That is absolutely gorgeous. 00:35:21 Everybody please listen in on that and make a note. I say this all the time, but I think it's so important that you all hear this from people other than me. We can sell how we want to be sold to, not how we have been sold to, right? And that intentionality, is a really big part of it. If it would turn you off, don't do it. 00:35:45 And if it would turn you on, lean into it. I think that that is so freaking key, because at the very beginning of this, when I went on this huge tangent with you and made you basically plan my next funnel for me on a live mic, thanks so much. But what I did was I was rebelling against the sleazy kinds of webinars. Not the true form, not the impact, not this interactive thing that you've outlined today. So thank you so much for clarifying that. 00:36:14 You very successfully. I feel like I should give you a medal or a prize or something like, Congratulations, you did it. You changed my mind. But now the true fun begins, which is, what the heck does any of this have to do with a movie called Pleasantville? Pleasantville is one of my it's in my top three movies of all time. 00:36:36 If people haven't seen it, it starts in 2002 or something like that, and there's these teenagers in the living room fighting over the remote control for the big screen TV, and something weird happens. Anyway, they find themselves back in the 1950s in a black and white world, and they're in a town called Pleasantville, where everything is perfect, but it's all black and white. And slowly, as the move evolves, these two kids are obviously pretty confused. But then after a while, they get into the groove. And the story goes, they get to know people, and they go to high school, and they get friends, and slowly what happens is one of them, the girl, the teenage girl, is trying to wake people up to the reality. 00:37:18 So people live in Pleasantville believe that there is nothing outside Pleasantville, that everything is always perfect inside Pleasantville. And Honey, I'm home is the common phrase when a man walks in the door, throws his coat on the coat rack and the good lady of the house does dinner and gets his slippers and pipe and it's all just the perfect American dream from the 1950s. But the girl isn't convinced, and she's trying to wake people up to the fact that this is just all an illusion. And slowly she succeeds. And every time she succeeds with someone, for example, the guy in the soda shop preparing the burgers and the sodas and the shakes for kids after school falls in love with this girl's mother. 00:37:59 And as soon as she falls in love and expresses her passion, his passion for her, he suddenly starts seeing everything in color. But then the flaws come out as well. So Pleasantville is a movie about an awakening consciousness, a tapping into passion and purpose and saying, I know the world's not a perfect place, and I'm okay with that. Let me deal with reality as it is and not, as the BS artist told me I should be experiencing at the Hollywood movies and so on. And that's why I love Pleasantville. 00:38:32 And how it relates to marketing is this if you want good karma and you truly want to follow your passion and do the things that you want to do and not to do the things that people tell you you should do, then you need to be in touch with reality. And the reality is there are challenges you've got to face, but you can face those challenges and generate new clients in a way that's ethical and fun and authentic and is value add for your clients. And that's why I love the movie Pleasantville. I love that idea of awakening that consciousness, because that's also what we were talking about with the demonstration, right. And the demonstration, as opposed to other types of webinars, the demonstration, the transparently going step by step and saying, this is how this happened. 00:39:18 That's an unfolding of people's perception of how feasible something is. Right? So opening up the eyes and seeing the things in color, that's what we're doing with those demonstrations of look at what's possible. Look at what you've been doing incorrectly or incompletely. It's illuminating. 00:39:36 In a non accusing way. In a non accusing way, right? Yeah. Well, you've got the phrases coming out. Although I would love to go to a webinar where they're like, you stop messing up your marketing. 00:39:49 I'd be like, yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. I think a lot of people are put off marketing because they see all the slimy tactics and manipulation that some people engage in and they think, well, I don't want to be that person. And the good news is, you don't have to be that person. You can be the central character in Pleasantville who wakes everyone up to reality and is happier because of that, despite all the flaws and challenges and problems. 00:40:17 So above everything else, there's someone, I can't remember who it was. Be true to yourself, and part of being true to yourself is looking at observing yourself and seeing things that excite you and that you can't get passionate about. And that is those things are the clues to your gift to the world to be doing more of the things that you want to do and less of the things that you are not inclined to do. Progressively get the latter out of your life and get more of the former. The things you want to do into your life, as you get more success, you can afford to do that and you can do more of them because I believe that the things you want to do, they are the clues. 00:40:56 If you like the signposts on the road of life that lead you to a more fulfilling life that's happier and that's more beneficial to those around you, heck yes. One more thing. On this Pleasantville tangent that we're so beautifully on, you keep saying that when it goes into color, we can see the flaws, and the artist in me really loves that and the perfectionist in me really freaking hates that. So my question for you is, in a way that I know I need to get around, right? That's just my own chatter. 00:41:30 But my question for you is, in order for a webinar to be effective, is it okay if it has flaws in it, or does it need to be perfect and shiny and use the biggest, newest technology and the flashing bells and whistles? 00:41:50 Is it more important to have it done or perfect? Well, definitely have it done. In fact, there are studies done on book reviews. Sometimes you'll go into Amazon, you look at a book and there's twelve reviews and they're all five stars. Yeah. 00:42:09 The studies indicate that you actually sell more books because you have more credibility if there's a couple of one or two stars in there, because people don't believe that anything should be five stars for everyone. And the reality is, it's not. So by having let's translate this to webinars, if you have a little technical glitch, it's fine. The lack of perfections can build credibility, provided there's not too much. I mean, for example, if the technical glitch is your microphone is not working and I can hear you, well, that's going to be a bit of a down, right? 00:42:49 But if you stumble or swear a word or you sneeze or you accidentally scratch your ear. That's just a part of life. Maybe don't pick your nose. But some of the other stuff what I do with webinars and I've done this when I was a professional public speaker for many years, is I would practice and rehearse and drill a thing at least 21 times before I present. And then when I present, I could focus on the audience. 00:43:13 I could focus on reading their body language. I had one talk I did over 500 times. I literally was doing presentations to hundreds, if not thousands of people. And I felt like I was standing beside my body, because when the pitch went to pause, when to pace, it was all just virtually auTomated. Now, you don't need to do that, but what I am saying is you prepare the content well. 00:43:39 You go over it time and time again so that when you're live or when you're recording in front of a camera with a view to publishing it, you're focusing not on the content as such, but on the delivery. So if there's a little glitch having prepared so well, if there's a little glitch, there's a little glitch. Just keep rolling. But the trick is to be prepared. I love that so much. 00:44:02 All right, I got two more questions for you before I release you back to your beautiful day. The first one is, what is something that you've only seen in black and white that you would love to see in color, or something you've only seen in color that you'd love to see in black and white? That's an interesting question, given that I've got the perfect answer. I'd like to see the first half of Pleasantville, which is in black and white, in color, and I'd like to see the second half of it in color, in black and white. There you go. 00:44:41 That would seriously mess with my brain, and I just like things that mess with my brain. Oh, I think that'd be magnificent. They should put that out as a director's. Cut. That's amazing. 00:44:51 Well, you have certainly changed my mind today, and I know that you've changed a lot of listeners as well. If they need to reach out for help creating similar change and similar impact and leads in their business, what's the best way for them to reach out to you? Tom? Best place they can the best thing they can do is go to GetTomsfreebook.com. GeTomfreebook.com, because they'll find the latest version of my bestseller, Marketing Webinars, and they'll be able to download a free copy. 00:45:21 And they'll then also get an invitation to my webinar demonstration, which we run on the first Wednesday of every month, although times will vary, because if they want to reach out to me directly, my email address is Tom at leadsology. L-E-A-D-S ology leads ology Guru Tom at Leedsology so they'll always respond to every email I possibly can. But Get, Tomstreebook.com kind of think of that like our first date. Dip your toe in the water. Dip your toe in the water. 00:45:55 I'll have fresh flowers, and you can see if you want to go on a second date, which will be the webinar. And from there, who knows? We might end up getting hitched, and. Maybe Hugh Jackman will come and wreck your marriage someday. It could happen, folks. 00:46:09 It could happen to you, too. Tom, it's been such a delight having you as my guest today. Thank you so much for all this jam packed, fabulous marketing info. Thank you. It's been a pleasure jumping. 00:46:27 Well, hey there, y'all. I did not go into this episode even considering webinars. Even though I knew Tom was brilliant, even though I knew he might change my mind a little, I was fixed, firm that I would not webinar. Turns out I wasn't even really thinking correctly about what a webinar actually is. Everything that Tom talked about today with the demonstrations, the social proof, the interactivity that's not what I thought a webinar was. 00:47:01 I thought a webinar was just a boring ass zoom you watch while you do dishes and maybe type a comment every now and then. No, it's a lot more than that. So your homework this week is to challenge your perception of a piece of marketing or selling that you may not fully understand. What's? Something that people have told you to do over and over and over. 00:47:23 For example oh, I don't know. Pulling from my own playbook, finally getting my ass on video. Wait, that sounded wrong. You know what I meant. Finally adopting video campaigns, right? 00:47:35 I think I know what's involved in this, but until I undergo it, I just can't be sure. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm delightfully wrong. Just like how pleasantville turned out to be. Not all that pleasant under a magnifying glass. 00:47:51 Or at least not all that much more pleasant than the place that they had previously left. Perhaps our perceptions are coloring our marketing in ways that are limiting us. I'm not saying we need to start adopting all strategies. I'm just saying it's worth a second look. 00:48:14 Hey, thanks for listening. If this episode kept you laughing and learning, I have two requests for you. First, make sure you hit that subscribe or follow button, depending on your platform so you never miss an episode. And also, more importantly, if you are looking for support, inspiration, networking collaborations, or just a chance to hang out with me, Annie P. Ruggles, and our fantastic guests, make sure that you are a member of our LinkedIn community, the legitimate it is a weird and wonderful place. 00:48:49 I can't even believe it's on LinkedIn, and we want you there. You'll find the link in the show notes. Big shout out, as always, to the fabulous dudes who helped me make this show, my producer and editor, Andrew Simms of Hypobull Impact, my theme composer, Riley Horbasio, and my show art creator, Fran Suavenio. See you next time.